Обзор темы Russian armour 1250-1430
(новые сообщения вверху) |
| Talbot
|
Отправлено 19:07 - Фев. 27, 2003 |
Цитата:
Цитата: от Talbot - 00:02 - Фев. 21, 2003
hundreds of different plates were excavated in Russia and Ukraine... If you want exact names of places of find with comments, I could consult with books on paper and put this information here. It can happen tomorrow or the day after, because i don't have those books here =0(
(Отредактировал(а) SkogTroll - 01:06 - Фев. 21, 2003)
Are there other ones that have not been mentioned here? If so I would be greatly appreciative if you would post them or email me with info.
|
| Talbot
|
Отправлено 18:57 - Фев. 27, 2003 |
Thanks! That was helpful. With the Babelfish translation I was only able to comprehend a portion of the material.
|
| Glem
|
Отправлено 01:17 - Фев. 27, 2003 |
SkoggTroll -- I actually translated this article a while back.. Talbot, it's the Gomiy article on the Kaganate site.
-Dmitriy
|
| SkogTroll
|
Отправлено 00:58 - Фев. 27, 2003 |
http://tgorod.ru/index.php?topgroupid=2&groupid=7&subgroupid=5&contentid=35
Article above is written in Russian, but You can see some interesting tables there....
|
| Fil
|
Отправлено 00:27 - Фев. 27, 2003 |
Glem, wow!
Более подробного описания исходника мне в жизни видеть не доводилось! ;)
Так держать!
|
| Glem
|
Отправлено 22:23 - Фев. 26, 2003 |
Talbot, I can do you even better.. I have that whole article photocopied.
The book should be available through ILL -- they have it in UC Library.
Here's the entry on lib.berkeley.edu
Title: Drevniaia Rus : gorod, zamok, selo / otvetstvennyi redaktor toma B.A. Kolchin.
Publisher: Moskva : Izd-vo "Nauka", 1985.
Description: 429 p., [8] p. of plates : ill. ; 30 cm.
Series: Arkheologiia SSSR ;
Notes: On p. preceding t.p.: Akademiia nauk SSSR. Ordena Trudovogo Krasnogo Znameni Institut arkheologii.
Includes index.
Bibliography: p. 417-[424]
Language: Russian
Subjects: Slavs, Eastern--Antiquities
Excavations (Archaeology)--Europe, Eastern
Kievan Rus--Antiquities.
Other entries: Kolchin, Boris Aleksandrovich
Institut arkheologii (Akademiia nauk SSSR)
Other Series: Arkheologiia SSSR (Izdanie v 20 tomakh)
Holdings:
Library Call Number Other Information
UCB Main DK30 .D751 1985 (circ status)
UCLA YRL DK72 .D74 1985 Stacks URLSTAX-STAX
UCSD SSH DK72 .D74 1985 Oversize (circ status)
CRL GenCollec E-8659
-Dmitriy
(Отредактировал(а) Glem - 22:26 - Фев. 26, 2003)
|
| Talbot
|
Отправлено 21:59 - Фев. 26, 2003 |
Цитата:
Цитата: от Talbot - 19:12 - Фев. 26, 2003
Greetings, Talbot! The reference, I hope it will help. The table № 144 from "Ancient Russia. City, Fortress, village", it refers to "Details of protective clothes and boards of 13-14 centuries "
http://www.kgx.narod.ru/gzs/images/TABL144.jpg
And just in case.
St.George. A relief on the wall of a St.George Cathedral in Jur'eve-Polish, about 1234.
http://www.kgx.narod.ru/gzs/images/TABL143.jpg
It's from "Ancient Russia..." too. Tab №143.
Thank you for the info. Can I get the bibliographic information on that book?
|
| Fil
|
Отправлено 19:12 - Фев. 26, 2003 |
Greetings, Talbot! The reference, I hope it will help. The table № 144 from "Ancient Russia. City, Fortress, village", it refers to "Details of protective clothes and boards of 13-14 centuries "
http://www.kgx.narod.ru/gzs/images/TABL144.jpg
And just in case.
St.George. A relief on the wall of a St.George Cathedral in Jur'eve-Polish, about 1234.
http://www.kgx.narod.ru/gzs/images/TABL143.jpg
It's from "Ancient Russia..." too. Tab №143.
|
| alrik
|
Отправлено 17:34 - Фев. 26, 2003 |
|
Кто даст ссылку на изображение реконструкции доспеха из усадьбы Онцифора Лукинича (Новгород) или пластин от него ?
|
| Talbot
|
Отправлено 17:04 - Фев. 26, 2003 |
Цитата:
Цитата: от Talbot - 01:37 - Фев. 23, 2003
As well, Tver city museum exhibits some remains of what they called plate armor - separate plates about 2x2 or 3x3 inches, with holes for stitching or riveting, along the edge of the plate. They are dated 13 century or so.
This is teriffic. Can you provide any more info on it?
|
| Talbot
|
Отправлено 17:01 - Фев. 24, 2003 |
Цитата:
Цитата: от Talbot - 01:37 - Фев. 23, 2003
As well, Tver city museum exhibits some remains of what they called plate armor - separate plates about 2x2 or 3x3 inches, with holes for stitching or riveting, along the edge of the plate. They are dated 13 century or so.
Do you have pictures or descriptions of these? Are they published somewhere? They are exactly the sort of thing I am looking for.
|
| posadnik
|
Отправлено 01:37 - Фев. 23, 2003 |
|
As well, Tver city museum exhibits some remains of what they called plate armor - separate plates about 2x2 or 3x3 inches, with holes for stitching or riveting, along the edge of the plate. They are dated 13 century or so.
|
| SkogTroll
|
Отправлено 23:37 - Фев. 21, 2003 |
Armour of Dovmont -AFAIK-
Dovmont (Daumantas? christian name Timofey)- He was prince (knyaz) of Pskov in the sec. half of 13c.
He had great respect of Pscovian people. The plates were found in the so called "Dovmontovo Gorodishe" (The city of Dovmont). It was stored in the building of the 14c. archive and was found in the remainigs of it. The fact, that it was kept in the archive, lets us suppose that it had some memorial value, and the period is nearby the period of Dovmont's reign in Pskov. So, it is supposed, that this armour may be the armour of prince Dovmont...
All promised information from books will be given in a few days...
Цитата:
Does anyone know where I can get ahold of this Kirpichnikov document?
AFAIK the book "The history of Russian warfare in 9-15c." By A. N. Kirpichnikov is wery rare. I can consult with it in the library and give You more exact information, if You want.
|
| Talbot
|
Отправлено 19:18 - Фев. 21, 2003 |
Цитата:
Цитата: от SkogTroll - 12:34 - Фев. 21, 2003
"Armour of Dovmont"
(AFAIK Kirpichnikov wrote about 120 pieces, and here we can see less... Perhaps not all are shown?)
(Отредактировал(а) SkogTroll - 12:43 - Фев. 21, 2003)
Thanks for this reference. This is exactly what I am looking for.
I have two questions.
First why is it called armour of Dovmont. What is Dovmont? Why is that part of its name?
Second Kirpichnikov wrote about 120 pieces. Is there any detail about these pieces. Were they part of the armour.
Does anyone know where I can get ahold of this Kirpichnikov document?
Thanks again for everyone's help. If there are more pieces like this out there I'd love them.
|
| SkogTroll
|
Отправлено 12:34 - Фев. 21, 2003 |
"Armour of Dovmont"
http://www.km.ru/images/t2t/tgorod/2003/02/dovmont.jpg
Second half of the 13c--first half of the 14c.
Excavated in Pskov. (AFAIK Kirpichnikov wrote about 120 pieces, and here we can see less... Perhaps not all are shown?)
Round piece in the center have copper cross,which is unseen on the photo.... So, by this(and by the place of find) we can judge that this armour has Russian origin.
Thanks Galina for the picture...
PS stored at Pskov, in the " Pskovskij Muzej-Zapovednik"...
(Отредактировал(а) SkogTroll - 12:43 - Фев. 21, 2003)
|
| Nickolas
|
Отправлено 11:48 - Фев. 21, 2003 |
alrik
Цитата:
Не подскажете, чешуйчатый панцирь
http://www.armourer.fromru.com/articles/russia/armour/scal_phot.jpg с этого сайта - где найден ?
Где найден я не знаю, но это фото из оспреевской книги Armies of Medieval Russia 750 - 1250. (может быть там указано место находки?). Хранится вещь в ГИМе.
|
| Bernard
|
Отправлено 09:58 - Фев. 21, 2003 |
alrik
Увы... Не знаю. Спросите у автора сайта.
|
| alrik
|
Отправлено 09:26 - Фев. 21, 2003 |
Добавлю :
по описанию, вроде, похож на доспех 14 в. из Владимира (вроде бы, хранящийся в Оруж.Палате), от которого найдено около 60 пластин ?
|
| alrik
|
Отправлено 09:13 - Фев. 21, 2003 |
Bernard, Не подскажете, чешуйчатый панцирь
http://www.armourer.fromru.com/articles/russia/armour/scal_phot.jpg с этого сайта - где найден ?
|
| Bernard
|
Отправлено 08:59 - Фев. 21, 2003 |
Talbot
Look here
http://www.armourer.fromru.com/articles/russia/
|
| Talbot
|
Отправлено 02:53 - Фев. 21, 2003 |
Цитата:
Цитата: от SkogTroll - 00:58 - Фев. 21, 2003
На 14 век? В Европе в конце оно только-толко появилось...
Кстати, почему раз латы, так сразу кирасы? Бриганды и чешуи тоже канают имхо...
Тем более, в разделе Тоже битва он привел примеры- все нормальные пластинки, на 13-14...
Визби-оно же коат оф ПЛЭЙТС а не скейлз =0)
Sorry, we're arguing around terminology...
When Ewgen says about plate armour-he means something like a cuirass... And he thinks that brigandine and lammellae is called SCALE armour...
Sorry...
(Отредактировал(а) SkogTroll - 01:01 - Фев. 21, 2003)
Thanks for the responses. I am looking for any rigid defenses dating from 1250-1430. Helmets, legs, gauntlets, cuirasses, brigandines, scale armour, lamellars. Essentially anything that is not mail and European as oppsed to Asian.
I am sorry for writing in English. I do not speak or read Russian.
|
| SkogTroll
|
Отправлено 00:58 - Фев. 21, 2003 |
На 14 век? В Европе в конце оно только-толко появилось...
Кстати, почему раз латы, так сразу кирасы? Бриганды и чешуи тоже канают имхо...
Тем более, в разделе Тоже битва он привел примеры- все нормальные пластинки, на 13-14...
Визби-оно же коат оф ПЛЭЙТС а не скейлз =0)
Sorry, we're arguing around terminology...
When Ewgen says about plate armour-he means something like a cuirass... And he thinks that brigandine and lammellae is called SCALE armour...
Sorry...
(Отредактировал(а) SkogTroll - 01:01 - Фев. 21, 2003)
|
| Ewgen
|
Отправлено 00:51 - Фев. 21, 2003 |
2 SkogTroll - Если я правильно понял человек интересуется PlateArmor - тобишь латными доспехами - Причем здесь Россия и Украина?
As far as I know hundreds of different pieces of SCALE armor were excavated... But I dont Know about excavated pieces of Plate Armor.
I'm sorry for my bad English.
|
| SkogTroll
|
Отправлено 00:02 - Фев. 21, 2003 |
hundreds of different plates were excavated in Russia and Ukraine... If you want exact names of places of find with comments, I could consult with books on paper and put this information here. It can happen tomorrow or the day after, because i don't have those books here =0(
(Отредактировал(а) SkogTroll - 01:06 - Фев. 21, 2003)
|
| Glem
|
Отправлено 23:49 - Фев. 20, 2003 |
[Doug, I'm just telling them to look at the other thread as well]
Gospoda, takzhe posmotrite suda:
http://tgorod.go.ru/cgi-bin/board/topic.cgi?forum=2&topic=72
|
| Talbot
|
Отправлено 22:52 - Фев. 20, 2003 |
I a studying 14th century plate armour in Europe. Does anyone know of any pieces which survive in Russia, Ukraine, or other similar places?
I have found six helmets from this period and one leg, and a few body armour pieces. I am even interested in fragments of plate armour.
Please help if possible.
DougStrong@aol.com
|
